New war rules for 2009

[iMod]

I can tell you now those rules don't apply to any SCUN wars here in SoCal, well a few of them do... but not all of them.

Huzzah!!
-iMod

[Just Some Bob]

I agree... I'm just angry as I literally was planning to make both a doomsayer AND a Titan this month. [insert emo smiley]

To which I say ...

challenge yourself:
Do it anyway, give it a name, and make it so good that your mod earns a ban of its own.

[iMod]

Precisely.  I'm sure if I brought the Phoenix to a war bad things would happen....  Anyway, what I believe contributing to the NIC to be is creating, rather than copying.  For example, to contribute is to create something no one has done before.  Copying is only effective if you are creating a guide of a mod that someone has already done, thus allowing people to follow more easily.
-iMod

[Rocco]

If my mod got banned then I'd be happy because it's just too good for wars.

The rules aren't much of a problem for me, I live in Canada and there's no wars up here.

[k9turrent]

... I live in Canada and there's no wars up here.

Which part of Canada? If you say the GTA, then you fail...EPICALLY

[DeadDumpster]

Not just the GTA, if he lives in Ontario, Alberta or BC as well. If you live in Ontario you can just drive to the wars hosted here. If you're Northern Ontario and think we're too far away, watch this: http://www.dailymotion.com/Forsaken_angel24/video/x82qcs_video-road-trip-really-low-quality

[m14]

Let's just state the banned blasters on a case by case basis. Put whoever is hosting the war decide what blasters are banned at the war. Each area is different. Some are big, and have more room for more powerful blasters. On the other hand, some are small and certain guns with high ranges can be banned for the war. There shouldn't be a real extensive list of banned blasters. The only ones I can think of are Singled Titans and Plugged BBBB. Other than that, let it be a case-by-case basis.

[jwasko]

That is the way it works.

It just so happens that, at 7 wars along the east coast this summer, certain blaster will be banned at each one because (based on prior experience) they proved to be inappropriate for that location; just like you said.

[nerfer9]

I don't see how this doomsayer thing is really hurting anyone from the West Coast. I mean, we can still use them...right?

[badger]

That is the way it works.

It just so happens that, at 7 wars along the east coast this summer, certain blaster will be banned at each one because (based on prior experience) they proved to be inappropriate for that location; just like you said.

The banning of the Doomsayer has nothing to do with the venues, but with the balance of gameplay.  I can personally say that I did not enjoy any round where there was more than one Doomsayer on the field.  The blaster simply tips the scales and makes some players feel that the fun in the sport is lost.  If you are only about winning, then you have missed the point of Nerf.  It has been banned for the sole purpose of levelling the field, nothing more.  It was not an affront towards Forsaken.  This ban does only apply to the Mag 7 events, but it is not exclusive or absolute, as has been stated by several Mag 7 members.  I personally am pleased with what has been banned save for the Manta restriction (not that I use Sicklefin that much).  I do feel that a toned-down Doomsayer could be possible, with less springs, or a restriction that only one Doomsayer per team, but that still leaves the gameplay imbalanced.

[Forsaken_angel24]

The ban does not bother me because it does not concern me.

I can understand banning a Nerf gun because it is dangerous.

Banning a Nerf gun because it is too good, does not make sense to me.

Badger put it well. "If you are only about winning, then you have missed the point of Nerf."
So all of a sudden people are losing to a safe Nerf blaster and they want to ban it? If so are they missing the point?
If it makes the playing field uneven? Then let's compensate for that.
If certain people feel it is so "unfair" then why not have the teams like 11 Vs 9 as opposed to 10 Vs 10?

Besides it is not the gun that is amazing it is also the wielder.
I have gone through much target practice with my Doomsayer. I am also meticulous with my stefan making.
This is what makes me the A** kicking overlord that I am.
I went up against Captain Slug with a Doomsayer and guess what? He also had one. He was using Cardiac kids Doomsayer.
It was a fast right strafing battle but I took him down. Why? Because I know my gun.
Same thing when I took down Oodalumps in a face off at Hell #2 when he was also using his Doomsayer. Why because I know my gun and have much practice with it.

I have come across 4 Doomsayers in my lifetime.
2 that I built. and 2 that other people built. Let me tell you I only fear one and that is the one I made for Cardiac Kid. I only fear that one because I will not let anyone wield mine.

Mine is hitting 100-105' Cardiac Kids is hitting around 90-95'.
Clearly not as hazardous as these so called Crossbows that can hit 120' or more.

Applefuries Doomsayer was too weak to be a threat. Even if it was a powerful enough to be a threat he does not have the strength to use it.
That's right kiddies The Doomsayer takes serious Muscle to use.

Oodalumps Doomsayer was cool because it had as many holes punched in the back as possible. Once again it did not have the same power mine did. It was also having some other problems during the war that I cannot remember.

The way I see it is, If you are upset at how much better someone elses gun is compared to yours. It's time to build a better one.
Nerf wars are changing, modifications are evolving. Doomsayers only problem is that it was made way ahead of it's time.

[Talio]

I'm going to try to be as delicate about this as possible.  To make something clear this is neither a flame nor an attempt to change you're mind FA.  I just want both opinions to be out there and I don't want to make this a huge debate.  Most of you will know I'm one of the huge pushers against the Doomsayer.  It will never be aloud at any war that I host or have a hand in hosting.  I've made my point about this clear.  It's all about game balance.  Back in the day there was a Lord of the Rings trading card game.  Yeah, I'm a geek, get it out of your system.  When it first came out there was a very specific kind of deck that came out and everyone started to use it.  Before long the tornaments were basically revolving around this deck type.  Either you played it or you played against it.  Because of this, most of the cards that made up the deck were banned from tornaments the next year.

I have said both privately and publically that the Doomsayer is the best nerf gun I've ever seen and I stand by that.  It's also the reason why I'm against it.  I would never change the way we play the game to accomidate a gun, because I truly do not care about nerf guns.  They are and were my favorite toys, but that's only because you can shoot people with them.  In all honesty, I would play this game with the suction cupped dart guns you get from the dollar store.  In fact, I've done this many times.  And you know what?  It was more fun then Apoc.  I personally do not care about the "technology of nerf."  It's nerf, not medicine.  If there are no more advances in Nerf technology, the world will continue on just as it has.  In fact, other then the 10,000 some people who actually care about nerf, no one would probably notice.

Part of this is my fault.  I forgot how important respect was.  I forgot that it's not about kicking A**, but doing something nerdy with accepting people.  I forgot that it's not about me being the nerf viking or you FA, being an "A** kicking overlord."  It's about everyone else.  It's about the group.  It's about fun for everyone and frankly, I didn't find it fun and extremely disrespectful to be shot twice in the face because you feel raw about some words we had years prior.  I haven't said anything before now, but after actually hearing you're take on this topic, I'm highly disappointed.

You basically expect us to change the way the game is played to accomidate your blaster.  I'm not going to make the teams 11 vs 9 just so you can use you're hell cannon, especially when I've seen a video of you laying out hundreds of nerf guns that you own.  I don't mean to be disrepectful here, because you know full well that I absolutely respect you and get along with you just fine.  This is just a matter that we do not see eye to eye on.  I have spent years attending and hosting nerf wars.  I was the first to flat out ban the Titan.  And honestly, that wasn't because it was dangerous.  I feel full well that I could take a hit from that thing and not have to seek medical care.  It's about balance.  If someone has a Titan, he may feel he should be able to use it because he spent hours and hours modifying it, but that's not my problem.  What you do in your time is your time.  If you want to mod guns and keep pushing the envelope that's fine, but while you're at a war, that's everyones time and you and I are no more important then the kid who showed up for his first war.  So honestly, if I have to sacrifice you having a little fun by making you use a different gun so that the game will be balanced and fair for everyone else, I will do so.

You're doing the right thing though.  This is just me.  Mag 7 has banned the gun, but we are not the be all and end all of nerf wars.  You use your gun at your wars and that's cool.  I hope that every single person who has a problem with my rules or Mag 7's rules hosts their own war.  I would love to see it grow in that capacity.  But this is not a competition.  It's not about being the best nerfer.  It's not about being the nerf viking.  It's not about being a guy who makes youtube videos.  It's something much bigger then that and as long as I'm involved in this game I will continue to do everything in my power to make nerf the friendly battle it is supposed to be.

Please remember, this is just me stating my opinion and you should not take it in any way as a personal attack.  I respect you and hope we can have a beer after Apoc without it being all weird.

Hugs and kisses,

Talio.

[Just Some Bob]

Somebody asked me what I thought of this argument.

After pondering it for a while, my answer is "what argument?"

I see no argument. 
I see an honest, considered, polite disagreement, and that is a mighty healthy thing.

I see two differing viewpoints - and I believe I see how both are clearly right.

Once there are dozens of Doomsayers and doomsayer-quality blasters in existence, probably the questions raised should be revisited.  In the meanwhile, the few people who have and who build these acknowledged balance-upsetting toys can accept the compliment, and continue to host their own wars.   Win-win-win all around, with the small exception that a few wars will be imposing a new kind of limitation.  Which might not really be all that new...  If I am interpreting correctly, one of Talio's points is that the ban on singled Titans has not really been solely about safety - that was just an assumption made by many (myself included), and allowed to stand out of convenience.  Since Doomsayers aren't known for being dangerous (even though I think we all know they could be in inexperienced hands) the safety point wasn't enough explanation this time.  It's still not the blaster which makes the nerfer, but now perhaps there's a reason to consider having classes of battles, like in so many other sports.  It should be about the sport, the same as auto racing has engine limitations, and so forth.  FA24 hosts mostly "unlimited" rounds, and the Mag7 hosts choose mostly not to.  Plenty of room for both.  And more.


Plus, those of us who build (or want to build) more balance-upsetting blasters now have a standard to strive for ... and eventually, to exceed.



... and I have to wonder ... if the AT4K, or even the SM3K, had lived up to its apparent potential - with the power of an SM1500 and a reliable auto-turret - this all might have had to happen a long time ago ...

[Darth Cheezinator]

Are Doomsayers banned for all SOF wars? I really hope not, because my best gun shoots around 80 feet. At3k's take too long to prime in wars, and my NF is really inaccurate at those ranges.

[jwasko]

It has been stated by SOF team members The SOF wars will be played by whatever rules the local organizer decides to use.

If the organizer of the Texas war decides to allow them, they will be allowed at the Dallas war. If the Washington nerfers decide not to allow them, they will not be allowed at the Washington war. Etc.